Stats Collecting for 2.0
Here’s what we were discussing in last night’s meeting. Please chime in and continue the conversation from here..
[04/18/2011 - 08:20:54 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> WP gives us no real stats
[04/18/2011 - 08:21:02 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/pods/stats/
[04/18/2011 - 08:21:10 PM] <@jchristopher> yeah, hardly stats
[04/18/2011 - 08:21:35 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> anyone against during update check, we hook into WP and ping our site with certain information about the site?
[04/18/2011 - 08:21:49 PM] <@jchristopher> I think it’s a great idea, but I’d love to see it as an option on activation
[04/18/2011 - 08:22:00 PM] <@jchristopher> e.g. “send anonymous data to pods”
[04/18/2011 - 08:22:05 PM] <@jchristopher> and you can opt out if you want
[04/18/2011 - 08:22:07 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> yeah
[04/18/2011 - 08:22:14 PM] <@jchristopher> only asks once during original activation, and is persistant
[04/18/2011 - 08:22:22 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> does WP do that though?
[04/18/2011 - 08:22:30 PM] <@jchristopher> ah, good point
[04/18/2011 - 08:22:38 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> i’d say opt out, but make it very easy to opt out
[04/18/2011 - 08:22:55 PM] <@jchristopher> sure
[04/18/2011 - 08:23:08 PM] <@jchristopher> I’m a stats geek so I’d love to see something like that implemented
[04/18/2011 - 08:23:13 PM] <@logikal16> sc0ttkclark: we tried it about 2 yrs ago
[04/18/2011 - 08:23:17 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> mainly, site url, site ip, wp version, php version, mysql version, pods version, a count of how many pods/templates/pod pages/helpers they have created, and some information about which components they have activated
[04/18/2011 - 08:23:33 PM] <@logikal16> I’m personally more a fan of opt-in. It’s a lot less sketchy.
[04/18/2011 - 08:23:59 PM] <wesbos> and make it clear that its just once, not an on going data sent
[04/18/2011 - 08:24:06 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> gotcha
[04/18/2011 - 08:24:13 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> WP does it everytime it checks for updates
[04/18/2011 - 08:24:25 PM] <wesbos> hrmm
[04/18/2011 - 08:24:29 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> they track site url, site ip, wp version, php version, mysql version
[04/18/2011 - 08:24:37 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> and of course plugins / themes
[04/18/2011 - 08:25:00 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> we can anonomize the site url / ip
[04/18/2011 - 08:25:07 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> and give them unique IDs
[04/18/2011 - 08:25:12 PM] <wesbos> hrm
[04/18/2011 - 08:25:24 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> i think it’d just be helpful to know our userbase
[04/18/2011 - 08:25:31 PM] <wesbos> yeah, id like to do that too
[04/18/2011 - 08:25:36 PM] <darknailblue> agreed
[04/18/2011 - 08:25:39 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> and i don’t think we’d know it any other way, and WP isn’t sharing
[04/18/2011 - 08:25:43 PM] <@jchristopher> +1
[04/18/2011 - 08:26:06 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> so we can have an opt out option in the pods Settings page, as well as WP Admin >> Settings >> Privacy
[04/18/2011 - 08:26:13 PM] <wesbos> yeah
[04/18/2011 - 08:26:14 PM] <wesbos> i like that
[04/18/2011 - 08:26:24 PM] <@logikal16> I’m more in favor of a “See how pods is being used”. Where if a user is willing to share their information, they’ll be able to see others’
[04/18/2011 - 08:26:43 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> who would do that?
[04/18/2011 - 08:26:52 PM] <darknailblue> kind of use the squeeze tactic
[04/18/2011 - 08:27:06 PM] <darknailblue> it would work on less technical users
[04/18/2011 - 08:27:26 PM] <@logikal16> sc0ttkclark: you asking me?
[04/18/2011 - 08:27:29 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> yeah
[04/18/2011 - 08:27:44 PM] <@logikal16> Anyone who wants to know how other pods sites are set up.
[04/18/2011 - 08:28:01 PM] <darknailblue> what about creating a “white paper” kind of version of that idea
[04/18/2011 - 08:28:27 PM] <@logikal16> And, short of visiting the site, would give them insight as to the more popular components / software
[04/18/2011 - 08:28:41 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> the only information we would track is site url, site ip, wp version, php version, mysql version, pods version, a count of how many pods/templates/pod pages/helpers they have created, and some information about which components they have activated — we’d not actually be able to view site url / ip, and only core components would be tracked, the rest are just numbers
[04/18/2011 - 08:29:21 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> url/ip would probably be md5 or something
[04/18/2011 - 08:29:29 PM] <@logikal16> At the same time, who cares how many pages/helpers/templates a site has?
[04/18/2011 - 08:29:50 PM] <@logikal16> I think the meatier data is *how* the pieces come together, e.g. via package names, etc
[04/18/2011 - 08:30:07 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> it’s just counts, it’d be a place on our site under Stats saying “People have created 5,399,400 pods”, etc.. etc..
[04/18/2011 - 08:30:21 PM] <darknailblue> i looks like you two are talking about two user bases…
[04/18/2011 - 08:30:27 PM] <wesbos> we could have a 10 million pods party
[04/18/2011 - 08:30:38 PM] <darknailblue> it*
[04/18/2011 - 08:30:56 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> we’d also be able to say 5,493,595 sites are using pods
[04/18/2011 - 08:30:58 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> etc..
[04/18/2011 - 08:31:28 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> it’s just numbers collecting
[04/18/2011 - 08:31:33 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> so we can run stats
[04/18/2011 - 08:32:09 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> right now we’re blind, and i’d doubt anyone would click the opt-in for lack of knowledge of the benefit or even that the opt-in exists
[04/18/2011 - 08:32:28 PM] <wesbos> Yeah I agree
[04/18/2011 - 08:32:33 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> gravity forms does the same type of stats tracking as WP too
[04/18/2011 - 08:32:40 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> and i bet a few other plugins too
[04/18/2011 - 08:32:58 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> i just figured this might be very useful for us going forward
[04/18/2011 - 08:33:12 PM] <wesbos> just need to make sure people are aware of it. I doubt anyone notable would call you out
[04/18/2011 - 08:33:36 PM] <@logikal16> Right. The important part is making sure it’s spelled out
[04/18/2011 - 08:33:52 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> we’ll have a privacy policy on our new site, and the stats tracking will be documented
[04/18/2011 - 08:34:04 PM] <darknailblue> good plan
[04/18/2011 - 08:34:10 PM] <@logikal16> Bad things happen when people get the sense that their data is being mishandled.
[04/18/2011 - 08:34:18 PM] <@logikal16> Hint: capital_P_dangit
[04/18/2011 - 08:34:38 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> and we can disable stats tracking on any site that’s “private” (WP Admin >> Settings >> Privacy >> Don’t allow search engines, etc to index the site)
[04/18/2011 - 08:34:38 PM] <@jchristopher> yes, transparency is key
[04/18/2011 - 08:34:50 PM] <wesbos> maybe when the plugin is installed, throw somethingthat says “thanks for installing pods! We may collect some anonymous data to help further develop the plugin TURN OFF ”
[04/18/2011 - 08:35:04 PM] <darknailblue> i like that idea
[04/18/2011 - 08:35:13 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> sure, we can have a pop-up on first open of any of the pods-related admin menus
[04/18/2011 - 08:35:15 PM] <darknailblue> very reminisent of can spam laws
[04/18/2011 - 08:36:24 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> so we all know we should include stats tracking, but not sure about how to go about it, let’s shelf it for a pods dev blog discussion
[04/18/2011 - 08:36:34 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> then we can bring others into the convo, like tony, etc..
[04/18/2011 - 08:37:00 PM] <@jchristopher> I like it
[04/18/2011 - 08:37:08 PM] <@sc0ttkclark> i’ll post a topic this week about it
gr0b1, 
Tony Jansen 12:35 pm on April 19, 2011 Permalink
Two things:
1. How is the WordPress reviewer policy on calling home?
2. Opt-in will be mandatory if you cater to the European market too: it has to do with a. Much stricter privacy regulation in the EU and b. an online culture that adjusted to that and will frown upon anything “calling home” by itself and without opt-in.
sc0ttkclark 12:40 pm on April 19, 2011 Permalink
1. Will check with the WP peeps and find out what the WP.org plugin repo rules permit
2. Good to know
Tony Jansen 12:46 pm on April 19, 2011 Permalink
One nuance to: if you don’t tell, people don’t know until somebody finds out, risking a little or even a big row later. If you make opt-out available you are letting people know upfront that you are calling home. The latter is the preferred way of doing stuff in my book: letting people know. Whether to opt-in or out is question two.
sc0ttkclark 12:50 pm on April 19, 2011 Permalink
I’m all for opt-out or opt-in, WP itself doesn’t do either and requires php to actually do it (or a plugin I believe might be available).
sc0ttkclark 1:23 pm on April 19, 2011 Permalink
After discussion with @tonyjansen – It appears that continuous stats aren’t actually necessary. How often is it once a site is launched and live that the configuration changes dramatically? Not very..
So an idea popped into my head — why not have a place within the Pods Admin area which you can “Submit your site to showcase”, which you click a button and it will prepopulate a form on the new podscms.org site with the site information. This way we can encourage new showcase submissions and make it easier for people to submit them. We’d add a few new fields to the showcase, like “How many Pods were used?”, etc.. and we could utilize that information for Showcase-specific stats. Sadly, I can’t think of any other way that would be worth it, because an Opt-in method would be overlooked by the majority of the users we’d like to know more about (so we can help them) – which would make the whole thing not very useful.
So.. a button to submit to showcase which prepopulates with site info for easy showcase submissions and having a Showcase-specific stats page.
gr0b1 5:38 am on April 20, 2011 Permalink
+1